Curse

upier · Feb 19, 2010, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

GW is a game, you're not forced to play it. If people find playing this game as intended boring or inaccessible.... it's probably time to move on and find a new game.

While I simply can not agree with most of the things you said - for instance if people find enjoyment in opening chests, it doesn't matter if the title would max at 1k instead of 10k or the fact that such heavy grinding is actually the way the game was intended to be - I do agree with the assessment that GW is just a game.
So why not just move on if you disapprove of SF?

Gill Halendt · Feb 19, 2010, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

While I simply can not agree with most of the things you said - for instance if people find enjoyment in opening chests, it doesn't matter if the title would max at 1k instead of 10k or the fact that such heavy grinding is actually the way the game was intended to be - I do agree with the assessment that GW is just a game.
So why not just move on if you disapprove of SF?

Because:

A) I don't disapprove SF just for the sake of it. I couldn't care less about SF myself. I don't use it. Other people do? Fine with me. I'll keep on playing my game, they'll keep on playing their. Incidentally, my way of playing the game is much closer to the way it was designed and meant to be played, so that saves me a lot of moaning for nerfs, since they rarely affect me.

B) Anet didn't care either, as long as SF was "just" a formidable farming tool. Now it's being abused like hell. They had a game in mind, they DESIGNED it and running it is NOT how they meant us to play THEIR game. That's a fact. It's THEIR game. THEY decide what is allowed and what not. And, quite frankly, who right in their mind could ever believe SF was even just "ok"? How could people think that blanket protection against 3/4 of the sources of danger was "normal"? I can't think of any other online game with a "Almost God Mode" enabled, without it involving hacks of any kind. But hey, this is Guild Wars, a game whose PvE is being bashed for being "easy as pie", yet no one actually plays it (and probably ever has) and most of the players resort to cheat-like gimmicks to win. How ironic.

It was just a matter of time, you knew it, SF abusers knew it and have exploited it as much as they could. Well, it's probably almost over, hope for them it was fun and fine while it lasted. They surely got the best out of this, I wouldn't even dare complaining, after 1 year and half of hoarding.

tl;dr -> ANet IS going to nerf it. So, I don't care if they nerf it either. I just can see the point they're trying to make and it's fine with me, just like SF staying. I'll keep on playing my game like I did in the last few months. Which is exactly the same way I've been playing it for almost five years now.

The problem is, SF abusers are grasping at straws trying to JUSTIFY the existence of an abuse that should never have existed at all, because they feel like ANet is taking their toy away.

upier · Feb 19, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

... the point they're trying to make ...

And this is the issue.
Fixing SF isn't the same as fixing the game.
It's gesture.
It's like giving a homeless guy 5 bucks.
It's a sign that they care. Just not enough to actually do something.

If the idea behind trashing SF is to fix the game - then were they doing for the last 3 years? Why is GW2 coming out? Why is the team that works on GW as small as it can get?
They are making a point. They are not fixing the game.
And at this stage, that's just a waste of resources.

FyrFytr998 · Feb 19, 2010, 04:54 PM // 16:54

So what's over/under on a the nerfs coming before Feb.28th?

At first I was all about no nerfs. Now I jus want the damn thing to come so we can move on to bitch about something new, lol.

Gill Halendt · Feb 19, 2010, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And this is the issue.
Fixing SF isn't the same as fixing the game.
It's gesture.
It's like giving a homeless guy 5 bucks.
It's a sign that they care. Just not enough to actually do something.

If the idea behind trashing SF is to fix the game - then were they doing for the last 3 years? Why is GW2 coming out? Why is the team that works on GW as small as it can get?
They are making a point. They are not fixing the game.
And at this stage, that's just a waste of resources.

Leaving SF in the game is like giving this homeless a kick in his face. Who cares? Even 5 buck won't help him much. So, let's do nothing. While we're at it, let's set him to fire.

SF is here. Nerfing it won't solve a thing! So, let's alter the whole game and make it a hell for anyone who doesn't play SF. Look at the UW, that's exactly what happened here.

You can't expect such a common abuse to widespread and the company not doing a thing just because it's a waste of resources. It's been a bigger waste of resources trying to alter the environment to let SF stay in my opinion: if I were ANet, I would have just blown up the skill a month after its introduction. There you go, cheap and easy. Way better than introducing enchantment removal anywhere and adding new enemies all around. What for? Not to lose those abusers threatening to leave if they ever had their toy taken away?

I never thought trashing SF would fix the game and I agree it's a waste of resources. Yet they have nothing to spend those resources on. Actually, GW itself is a waste of resources, since they obviously have little income from it compared to the expenses. So, all they can do is maintenance. Fixing issues. Removing abuses. BINGO. They see SF as an abuse (and wonder who doesn't...) and they're nerfing it. Call it a gesture. It's better than "GW is going downhill, let's give it up and see how down it goes" to me.

You're being optimistic if you expect a substantial overhaul in any game, let alone a 5 years old game in this late stage of its lifespan. Most of the issues observed won't ever be fixed, since are basic faults that are hardly addressed by gaming companies. Ever played Quake? Quake had one of the most simplistic AI ever seen in a game. People complained. Quake 2 addressed some of those issues, making the sequel a better game. It's called evolution. Current AI is fine: it's simplistic, yet above average when compared to lots of other games of this kind. GW at least has scattering mechanics, targeting priority and some form of reaction to reactive hexes (eg. a caster not using spells if Backfire would kill him). All these were improvements introduced in the last few years.

Giving up while we wait for GW2 to show up is plain non-sense. Trashing it WON'T fix the game. But letting it stay hardly did, so "a sign they care" is welcomed here. Any defense to SF is absurd: it's a thing any gaming company would have nerfed or prevented.

jazilla · Feb 19, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

So what's over/under on a the nerfs coming before Feb.28th?

At first I was all about no nerfs. Now I jus want the damn thing to come so we can move on to bitch about something new, lol.

Even money on the "Over". 100 to 1 odds on the under sir! I just checked with my bookie in Vegas.

Operations · Feb 19, 2010, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I got a better chance of finding 100K in gold nuggets in my basement than us getting the update this month. Their silence is damning.

daraaksii · Feb 19, 2010, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Let's face it, SF won't/can't be killed

upier · Feb 19, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Giving up while we wait for GW2 to show up is plain non-sense.

The idea isn't to sit around and wait.
The idea is to look at the game and see we've been though this before. They could take a hard realistic look at the game and maybe look past the skills that are currently casing the problems. Maybe they could look at the fact that they turned this game into a massive grindfest and now they need to support this. Maybe they could look at what is causing the players to focus so much on the grind and fix that. And once that issue is resolved, then there is next to 0 reason for them to pretty much balance the whole game around farming.
And then they can easily smiter's boon the whole farming experience.

Or does anyone SERIOUSLY expect we won't have the same kind of problem again in a few months after SF is trashed?

Gill Halendt · Feb 19, 2010, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Or does anyone SERIOUSLY expect we won't have the same kind of problem again in a few months after SF is trashed?

Probably, but not of this magnitude.

Anyway, I agree this is just ONE step and hopefully more are to come. But they have to do the biggest one to start moving.

Phineas · Feb 19, 2010, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Just to refresh peoples' memories.. Running an A/E Perma requires all of the GW Chapters + EotN, and is most likely the reason it has stayed in the game so long. If ANet give it the nerf then I think they've decided either (a) box sales are not worth pursuing at this point; or (b) to introduce skill changes that result in another multi-product game-beating build.

Orry · Feb 19, 2010, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

Just to refresh peoples' memories.. Running an A/E Perma requires all of the GW Chapters + EotN, and is most likely the reason it has stayed in the game so long. If ANet give it the nerf then I think they've decided either (a) box sales are not worth pursuing at this point; or (b) to introduce skill changes that result in another multi-product game-beating build.

Tell me what skills from Prophecies an Assassin needs, I could have sworn there were none, even the elementalist skills come from Factions and EotN, and you don't need the eotn skill so long as someone else has an essence or you buy from another player.

Lest121 · Feb 19, 2010, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I see failNet still listen to the minority QQers.... it's been 18months since i played this game and nothing has changed with failNet.....

own age myname · Feb 19, 2010, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I think it's funny that in their PAX video (I think, one of the gaming convention videos) they said SF was their #1 priority and they were going to fix it before the end of 2009. Lol, just lol.

drkn · Feb 19, 2010, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Shadow Form and Invulnerability
In tackling Shadow Form, we decided to take a larger look at the issues involved. We didn’t want to simply nerf Shadow Form and cause a mass migration to another overpowered build, only to nerf that after players start using it. It’s not possible to predict all of the clever combinations that players may invent, but we’d like to establish clearer guidelines for ourselves and for players as to what is and isn't acceptable. This should help us with any future buffs or nerfs related to end game PvE.
Based on our testing, observation and discussion, we expect to make changes to Shadow Form, Obsidian Flesh, and to a skill or two used in 600-Smite builds.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...views/20100219

theories how exactly will they touch SF?

rkhanna · Feb 20, 2010, 01:19 AM // 01:19

25e 5s 90r is my bet <.<

UnChosen · Feb 20, 2010, 01:35 AM // 01:35

I'm just glad that Anet decided to stall for this long after they announce the possible nerf.

Since I am nearly 100% sure they won't do anything to fix all the problems that SF and 600/Smite are hiding, namely pug unfriendly design, bad effort/reward ratio, useless/underpowered classes, over-the-top damage forcing tanking, etc....I decided to take some of the advice from here and truly abused these skill like mad for a month straight (whereas before it was just a nice pugging tool for me).

Now once they nerf the skills and if pugs dies off like it did with Ursan/DoA it won't screws me over by forcing me to beg for guild help...since I already got every single little thing and can quit easily

. Bring on GW2!

I hope Anet learned something from this. They should design GW2 to be COMPLETELY SOLOABLE from the very beginning unless they plan to truly support grouping to begin with.

None of this H/h but not in end game and "soloing is bad" but no efficient group mechanism BS.

And get rid of the 300 damage monsters unless they intend to implement pug friendly tanking skills.

And if they want to make the game based on guilds, don't make it so people have to guild hop constantly to find a good one. Implement a guild statistic system in the next game please, with guild size, approximate activity, age, most active areas, etc. So that I can do click an join instead of the current "post (spam) and wait and hope for the best" method.

See ya all next game

Dabineh Deathbringer · Feb 20, 2010, 10:23 AM // 10:23

I'm glad SF is coming to an end. People have abused it for ages. It's basically god mode. Unable to die for a few seconds unless you have a previous degen on you. That's pretty lame.

Makes farming a joke.

I heard a lot of people will quit GW when SF gets nerfed. Good! That way the people with the money will be people who know how to do real farming instead of using an imba skill to get all their profits.

However this thread was made in November. Still looks like they are working on it.

I can't wait to say bye-bye to imba sins.

rkhanna · Feb 20, 2010, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dabineh Deathbringer

That way the people with the money will be people who know how to do real farming instead of using an imba skill to get all their profits.

I am curious as to what you define as "real" farming exactly. They're nerfing 600/smite, Obby flesh and SF in one fell swoop. This leaves SOS spirit spam, 55 hp, 105 hp dervish and possibly VwK Rt/Mes, all of which are proven to be suboptimal to the three build concepts getting the axe.

I might well be leaving something out, hence curious. What do you call "real farming" exactly, that makes one a better player than the countless lemmings abusing admittedly overpowered game mechanics.

Tenebrae · Feb 20, 2010, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Or does anyone SERIOUSLY expect we won't have the same kind of problem again in a few months after SF is trashed?

Oh rly ? please enlighten us , if OF , SF and 600/smite are out of the way ( wich i dont think is going to be anyway ) what will be the next problem ?. And please , tell us WHAT problem that could be that implies a bloody broken skill ....

Nothing , yes. Because theres no skill combo that is more overpowered and broken than those they are going to rework.

PS: You still speak like they are going to smitterboon SF and they said is going to be a func change ... if you think this is going to change nothing .... why you care ?

.